General Harry H. Vaughan Oral History Interview, January 14, 1963

Notice
This is a transcript of a tape-recorded interview conducted for the Harry S. Truman Library. A draft of this transcript was edited by the interviewee but only minor emendations were made; therefore, the reader should remember that this is essentially a transcript of the spoken, rather than the written word.

Numbers appearing in square brackets (ex. [45]) within the transcript indicate the pagination in the original, hardcopy version of the oral history interview.

RESTRICTIONS
This oral history transcript may be read, quoted from, cited, and reproduced for purposes of research. It may not be published in full except by permission of the Harry S. Truman Library.

Opened March, 1964
Harry S. Truman Library
Independence, Missouri

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MORRISSEY: As preparation for this interview, General Vaughan has graciously allowed me to read here in his home, a manuscript copy of his memoir which he is preparing. He has also allowed me to refer to three scrapbooks of material covering his career, two of which, which cover the years from 1942 to 1952, are currently in the National Archives being microfilmed for the Truman Library. The first and fourth volumes of the scrapbooks will also be microfilmed in the future. Other sources consulted in preparation for this interview include testimony and Congressional Hearings, magazines, newspaper articles read at the Library of Congress, and in the Truman Library.

These questions and answers this afternoon are

[2]

not intended to cover all the topics discussed in all these sources, but to supplement some points already discussed and to raise some points which haven't been discussed. Researchers using this transcript should use as well the memoir the General has given a lot of work to since he left the White House staff in January, 1953. In fact, it's almost ten years to the day, isn't it? I hadn't thought of that.

General, I know you've told many times the story of your first meeting with Harry S. Truman, but would you tell it again for our benefit right now?

GENERAL VAUGHAN: Along about March of 1917, I was a second lieutenant with the 130th Field Artillery. Harry Truman was a first lieutenant with the 129th Field Artillery and up to the day that I mention, I didn't even know him; I had never seen him. We had a brigade commander by the name of Brigadier General Lucius Berry who commanded the 60th Field Artillery which was the artillery troops of the 35th Division. General Berry was a tough old Indian fighter and pretty hard on second lieutenants. He would have a brigade officer's call to which some 150 officers would report – 175 -- and he was always in a

[3]

hurry; and when he'd get to the meeting, if the officer's call was for 3:00 o'clock and he got there at ten minutes to 3:00, he would start the meeting. If you got there at five minutes to 3:00, you were late and you caught the devil.

On this particular day, there were three or four of us walking over to the Brigade Headquarters, young second lieutenants from the 130th, one of whom was Jim Pendergast of Kansas City. We were talking and laughing and as we went through the door, we were clear inside before we realized that the meeting had begun and that General Berry had a young first lieutenant out in front of him, giving him unshirted hell about the way he was running the canteen. It seemed that First Lieutenant Harry Truman, in addition to his other duties, was what we call now PX Officer -- Canteen Officer. So, coming through the door we made a lot of noise and Berry was distracted from what he was doing, and he turned and looked us over. We, of course, snapped up to attention and acted like there was nothing the matter at all, and Berry looked right at me. I was the first one in and the biggest and probably making the most noise, and he said, "What is your name, Mister?"

[4]

Well, you may or may not recall that in those days you had to be a first lieutenant before you had any rank; second lieutenants were called "Mister."

So, I was standing like a ramrod and I said, "Vaughan, sir."

He said, "How long have you been an officer in the United States Army?"

I said, "Three days, sir," with which he proceeded to go into detail as to how he doubted very much if I would ever be an officer in the United States Army if I lived to be a hundred. And while he was giving me the business, much to the amusement of everybody who was behind him, whom he couldn't see, why, this first lieutenant stepped back in the ranks with all the rest of the officers who were standing there, and when Berry got through with me, which took two or three minutes because he really covered the subject, he forgot who he had been talking to and he went on with the meeting. Well, the meeting lasted twenty to thirty minutes and was instructions about this and that and the other thing, and on the way out, this officer grabbed me by the arm and said, "Much obliged Mister, you got me off the hook

[5]

nicely."

After we got outside I said, "Who was that?"

Jim Pendergast, of course, knew him, because Jim had been in the 129th Regiment before he was commissioned. Jim said, "Why, that's Lieutenant Harry Truman. He lives in Independence; he's a friend of mine."

And that's the first time I ever saw Truman and the first contact I ever had with him.

MORRISSEY: Did you see much of him after that?

VAUGHAN: Well, I would see him at officer's call. He went over to France ahead of me. He was in what we call the advance detail. In fact, about a week after that particular incident, he started off for France with what they called, as I say, the advance detail for the brigade. And then I didn't see him until we got to France and I would run across him now and then. His battery position and mine were sometimes rather close, although usually their battery position was in front of us. They were 75's and we were 155's and so I ran across him -- in France probably I ran onto him eight or ten or a dozen times.

[6]

MORRISSEY: Any specific recollections of meeting him?

VAUGHAN: Well, my particular recollection of Harry Truman is after a couple of weeks in the trenches without any chance to take a bath or to change clothes, the rest of us would look like bums with mud sticking all over us, and he always looked immaculate. And I was never able to understand why. I couldn't see myself, but I imagined I looked like a buck private in the Mexican Army, but Truman looked like he just stepped out. He was always clean and neat and dapper. I'd meet him and we'd chat. I remember riding up to reconnoiter a new gun position, and I met him coming down the road and we stopped and chatted. We were both on horseback and we stopped and got off over to the side of the road because it was a camouflaged road and it was under fire whenever there was any movement on it. That was along about the first of November, near close to the end of the war. It was up in the Verdun sector.

MORRISSEY: Did you come back together to this country?

VAUGHAN: No, no, not on the same ship. We came back on a German ship that had been turned over. They had a bunch

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of our naval recruits running the ship and they had a score of German sailors aboard because our people didn't know where the valves were to turn on. They had these Germans -- they were German prisoners -- acting as advisers to the chaps running the ship. This was, I believe, a Hamburg-American Liner that had been taken over that we came back on. About the same time, Truman's outfit came back, because we stayed in our gun positions for three months after the armistice. I never did know -- I don't yet know why we had to live in the mud there. We just stayed right where we were when the last shot was fired.

MORRISSEY: Going back a bit, do you remember anything about the canteen that Mr. Truman ran with Eddie Jacobson?

VAUGHAN: Oh well, I had been in it. You see, instead of having a big post PX like they have now, each regiment had their own canteen and it was usually in one end of the building that was the guard house; it was the guard house in one end and the canteen usually in the other. They had very, very limited supplies. They had toilet articles and handkerchiefs and they sold "near beer." Bevo had just come out, you know. We had prohibition and they sold Bevo, boxes of cookies and candy bars and toilet

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articles and handkerchiefs and things of that nature. It was nothing like the department stores that PX's have now.

MORRISSEY: Some people when they recollect their first meeting with Mr. Truman, comment upon his glasses. His eyes seemed to shine. Do you recall anything about him losing his glasses?

VAUGHAN: Well, yes, you know, he wore thick glasses, they tell me, from the time he was about ten years old. I don't know what the difficulty is. It was a lack of coordination of -- I don't know enough about the eye to be able to tell what the difficulty was. But he always had thick glasses and he couldn't get along without them. I imagine his vision with glasses is 20-20, but without the glasses he couldn't recognize his brother twenty feet away. So, he always has had several pair on hand in case he lost any because he would be so helpless without them, and he was advised that he could not wear the ordinary glasses with the side pieces over the ears in action, because it would interfere with wearing your gas mask, you see. It would leave a hole on either side

[9]

that you would be able to get gas through. So he brought, he said, I believe he said, four or five of his lens prescriptions in pince-nez, and one night -- he always carried a pair with him and he had two or three pair in his baggage. One night, when we were moving up into the St. Mihiel, we were moving right along the front, so we had to move at night, get under cover and bivouac during the day and then after it got completely dark, we'd mount up and move up fifteen, twenty kilometers. He'd mounted up the battery and was just about to march out. He rode under a tree and a branch swept his glasses off. Well, of course, it was dark and he couldn't show a light to hunt for the glasses, so he said he was going to have to stop and get his baggage out of the wagon and he turned back to holler to the first sergeant to hold up the battery. As he turned to the rear, he put his hand on the horse's rump to turn around, and he put his hand right on his glasses. They were sitting right on the horse's back. It was one of the most fortunate breaks because, you see, when you move at night or in any troop movement, you're supposed to move at a certain minute because you have to clear certain crossroads. You have to get your first vehicle

[10]

at this crossroad at an absolute split second and you have to clear it at a split second because the next outfit is coming in from this other side road and the schedule gets all fouled up if you don't. So, he was right on time and a five minute stop to get another pair of glasses would have been disastrous.

MORRISSEY: Does he tell this story or were you there?

VAUGHAN: No, I wasn't there because this was in action, you see. I was with my regiment, the next regiment to it. I don't know exactly where I was at that particular moment. We were moving up, and in moving up through all that mud, we had a bigger problem than he did because his guns weighed about three thousand pounds and our guns weighed about seven thousand pounds. He was supposed to have six horses per gun and we were supposed to have eight, but we were both short of horses because a lot of our horses were killed and shot and a lot of them starved to death for lack of hay. No, I wasn't there. I've heard him tell the story.

MORRISSEY: Do you recall, at first hand, any visits to his store in Kansas City after the war was over?

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VAUGHAN: Well, no, not for the number of years he was in the business. I've been in the store a number of times after he got out of the business and Eddie Jacobson re-established it. But not while he was in there. During about 1920 -- say from '20 to '24, I didn't have much -- I'd see him at camp; that was the only time I'd see him. I didn't have occasion to be in Kansas City at that time only going through Kansas City on the way to Fort Riley, so I don't suppose I was in Kansas City at any time while he was in the haberdashery business.

MORRISSEY: Then it's safe to say that you weren't close to Mr. Truman during the 1920's in relation to his business activities?

VAUGHAN: No, I had no knowledge of his business activities. I'd see him every year in camp and we'd renew our acquaintance that way.

MORRISSEY: The same is true of his political activities -- running for county judge and that sort of thing?

VAUGHAN: Well, you see, he didn't have any political activities until about 1924. As I recall hearing they were hunting for somebody to run for county commissioner,

[12]

and Mr. Pendergast didn't have a candidate. His nephew Jim, who had been in the regiment with us -- in the brigade with us -- Jim suggested Harry Truman. He brought Harry Truman down and introduced him to his uncle, and that's the first connection Truman had. Old Tom Pendergast wanted to have some window dressing and Truman was really window dressing for him because he could say, "Well, there's my boy Truman. Nobody can ever say anything about Truman. Everybody thinks he's okay."

MORRISSEY: When you went to reserve camp in the 20's and the 30's, where did you go -- what camps?

VAUGHAN: Most often at Riley. I think one year we went to Leavenworth but Riley was preferable because there is an artillery range at Riley and there is not at Leavenworth. We went to Ft. Sill on one occasion, I believe. It was a matter of scheduling various regiments at various places. We went one year to Camp Ripley, which is up in Wisconsin. I forgot the closest town -- oh no, it's Minnesota -- Camp Ripley, Minnesota. We were at Ripley once, Sill once and Leavenworth once, and I think at Riley a dozen or fifteen times.

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MORRISSEY: This was for artillery training?

VAUGHAN: Artillery training, yes, for two weeks.

MORRISSEY: Mr. Truman did the same as you were doing?

VAUGHAN: Yes. I think '22 was the first year we went. I was a captain and Mr. Truman was a major at that time. Then we kept on going and he always kept one grade ahead of me and when I got to be a major general, I figured I ranked except he was Commander in Chief and I really didn't rank him after all.

We were in what was known in the Reserve Division as the 102nd Division, the Ozark Division it's called. From about '35 to '40, I commanded the 380th and Mr. Truman commanded the 379th and Colonel Snyder commanded the 381st.

MORRISSEY: This was John Snyder?

VAUGHAN: Yes, this was the Arkansas regiment. It was Missouri and Arkansas that made up the 102nd Division in those days.

MORRISSEY: Did you know John Snyder well?

VAUGHAN: Oh, quite well. Of course, he was with the 32^nd

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Division during the war, so we didn't meet him until the first time we went to camp which was in about 1922. He was captain then and so was I, and Truman was a major, I think. He went to camp with us and then he was in the banking business there in St. Louis and with the National Bank Examiners -- Federal Bank Examiners. Then he got into one of the St. Louis banks and he lived in St. Louis for about ten or twelve years.

MORRISSEY: Would you say he was particularly close to Mr. Truman?

VAUGHAN: Oh yes, they were very close. They used to see each other and he'd get to Kansas City quite frequently on matters of business. Yes, they were very close. They were very close friends.

MORRISSEY: Another member of that group was Ed McKim.

VAUGHAN: Well, Ed McKim was a personal friend of Mr. Truman's. They got to be personal friends after the war was over because during the war, Eddie McKim was one of Truman's enlisted men. When Truman took over this battery, Ed McKim was a sergeant and about two or three weeks after Truman took over the battery, he was sent to an artillery

[15]

school at Fort Sill and another captain took over temporarily, a Captain Roland Ritter who was a pretty tough disciplinarian and he didn't like the way McKim goofed off evidently, so he reduced Mr. McKim to a buck private. When Truman came back from his school, why, McKim asked permission to talk to the captain and he went up and asked him -- explained that he had been reduced to a private and asked him if Truman wouldn't make him a sergeant again. Truman said, "Hell, no. I've been figuring on busting you to a private myself." McKim claimed that Truman wouldn't even make him a first-class private. For the next eighteen months he served as a buck private and a first-class private got two dollars a month more than a buck private -- he figured Truman owed him thirty-six dollars for the eighteen months time. McKim, during one summer camp, oh, I think it was along about 1930, I commanded a separate battalion of the 77th Field Artillery which was an inactive regular army composed of reserve officers. McKim was a first lieutenant and was acting that summer as my adjutant. About the last day or two of the camp, we were to have our pictures taken and this was just before evening mess. It was along about five-thirty in the afternoon, and

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there was about twenty officers. I remember another major and myself, a regular army instructor, Major Spencer, and myself and there was four captains. So we carried six chairs out and the two majors and the four captains sat down and then there were about twelve or fourteen first and second lieutenants standing behind us. That was a group picture. As I got up to walk over toward the porch where we had been sitting before, I said over my shoulder, "Lieutenant McKim, would you please bring my chair up to the porch?"

Well, McKim picked up the chair and walked along and as he went by me he whispered in my ear, "You so and so, you've ruined my record. This is the first work I've done for the two weeks I've been here, carrying this chair. You've ruined my record."

I thought that was rather amusing but never thought any more about it. About, oh, I should suppose it was ten years later, John Snyder called me one day and he said, "Senator Truman is coming in," (this was in about, I guess, about 1938), "Senator Truman is coming in on the B & O train. Let's have lunch together and go down and meet him." I think the B & O train got in at 1:20 or something like that. So we had lunch and we went

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down, to the station and we were standing and everybody got off the train but we didn't see Truman. Finally, after everybody had gotten off there, Truman stepped down and turned to help someone off. Lo and behold it was Eddie McKim. And he was skunk drunk. He couldn't stand up. Truman was helping him. I said, "Look at what we've got here." I said, "John, you and the Senator go on." I knew they were going to stay down at the Missouri Athletic Club. I said, "You and the Senator go on and I'll take this guy McKim and nobody will know that the Senator even knows him and I'll meet you." Well, we waited so long that all the passengers from the trains had gone in and there was only one taxicab. So when we got out there, there was the Senator and Snyder waiting to get in this cab. It was the only one in sight so we all four had to get in the cab. We got McKim over in the corner and he was waving at everybody going down the street -- down Market street -- and just making a nuisance of himself. When we got to the Missouri Athletic Club, I said, "I'll walk through the lobby with McKim; set him down here. You go over and register and I'll meet you at the elevator. You don't have to speak to us."

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We got in the elevator and the bellboy had the bags and I got in and was kind of supporting McKim. When we got up to the sixth floor, the Missouri Athletic Club was built like a "C" and the elevator is in one end and, of course, it would be, that the suite Senator Truman had was clear around the other end -- I suppose a hundred yards all together. So, when we got to the fourth or fifth floor, whichever it was, I stepped back to let the bellboy get off first with the bags. I let loose of Ed McKim and he fell out through the door on his face on the hall floor. I got him up on his feet and just got down under him and put him over my shoulder with a fireman's carry, you know, and went on down the hall with McKim on my shoulder (McKim is six feet three and weighed about 220 pounds at that time and this was August and hot as the devil).

Well, they had the door open and the bellboy had deposited the bags and gone and I went into the sitting room and there was a big couch there. I just made a heave and heaved McKim over on the couch, and I said, "You lie there you drunken so-and-so."

With that, he jumped up and scrambled over behind

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the couch and said, "You will make me carry your chair, you S.O.B."

He hadn't had a drink -- hadn't had a drop to drink. He and Truman were in on the practical joke to play on me and, of course, Snyder, had made all manner of fun. He thought it was a great joke on me, but it was just as much a joke on Snyder because he was just as much sold on McKim being drunk as I was -- only he wasn't charitable enough to carry the drunk around. Well, that story has been told a thousand times and it gets a few embellishments but that's the main detail.

So, McKim was very much in the picture. McKim, pretty soon he got out -- he got tired of the reserve. He did not want to work; he didn't want to pass any correspondence courses and he didn't want to do any work. I think he finally got to be a captain and then he dropped out, but he used to come down to Riley frequently in the summertime when he wasn't at camp, He'd just drive down for the weekend in between the middle of the course. He's always a delightful poker playing companion and quite a fellow, and Mr. Truman was very, very fond of him.

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MORRISSEY: This Major Spencer you mentioned is not to be confused with Spencer Salisbury?

VAUGHAN: Oh no, no. Major Spencer was a regular army -- I'm not sure whether the Major's -- I know he's long since retired. He was a regular army officer detailed as an instructor to my reserve regiment. He'd go to camp with us and I met him again when I went out to -- in 1942 -- January of '42 when I went out to Camp Roberts, California. I was commanding one of the training regiments at this artillery training center, and Spencer was one of the senior instructors at the artillery training center. He was a full colonel at that time.

MORRISSEY: Do you recall anything about Spencer Salisbury?

VAUGHAN: Oh yes, I knew Salisbury. Salisbury commanded one of the 129th batteries. I don't remember which one it was. I think it was "C" Battery -- I believe, because Ted Marks had "E" on the other side of Truman. Yes, I think he had "C" Battery; I think that battery was also from Independence -- both "C" and "D" were from Independence. Salisbury -- I never did know him well enough to know how efficient an officer he was in

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action. He was a kind of a gold brick all the years he went to camp with us there at Fort Riley. The nickname the boys had for him was -- he was called "Carranza" -- "Carranza and his Guerrillas." That was the affectionate term that Battery "D" had for Battery "C" next door.

MORRISSEY: Do you remember much about Ted Marks?

VAUGHAN: Oh yes, Ted went to work. They tell a funny story about Ted Marks. He was about twenty years old and he had served six years in the Grenadier Guards when he came to this country. He decided he wanted to enlist in the National Guard and he went down and Corporal Truman enlisted him -- made out his papers for him. Ted claims, I don't know whether there's any truth in this or not, that Truman said, "How long you been in this country?"

And Ted said, "Oh, about two weeks."

Truman says, "You speak damn good English for having been here only two weeks."

Oh yes, Ted was great; he was a very close friend of Truman's. In fact, he was best man at Truman's wedding and Ted claims that the only reason that Truman picked him out to be best man is that Ted was a tailor and Ted said he could make Harry Truman's wedding suit on

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credit and that's the only reason. In fact, Ted says both of their suits were on credit. Ted went along for many years. He stayed longer than McKim. He was a major when he dropped out and he was a great fisherman. He used to love to go fishing. He'd take time off to go fishing whenever he got a chance. He greatly enjoyed poker -- very dour poker player. His expression never changed. He could have a royal flush or a pair of deuces and he'd never tell -- he acted the same way, which makes pretty difficult competition, as you know.

MORRISSEY: Was Eddie Jacobson going to reserve camp?

VAUGHAN: Oh no. Eddie never did. After he was discharged in 1919, he was discharged as a sergeant and he never got into the reserve. You know, in those days, there was no enlisted reserve. There was no enlisted reserve until after the Second World War. The reserve during all those years of '20 to '40, I don't know why in the world we stayed in the reserve. We didn't have any equipment; we didn't have any enlisted personnel; we had no material; we had no equipment; we just didn't have anything. But we had a meeting every Monday and went to camp every year and stuck around. The idea of getting

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paid for reserve training, that never had occurred to us.

Eddie was a rather serious minded chap, very conscientious and splendid gentleman. In fact, after that business failed he and Harry Truman reorganized it and paid back absolutely every cent -- one hundred cents on the dollar on all their obligations -- which they didn't need to do if they had wanted to take bankruptcy. Eddie had a very successful store. I remember the last time I was in Eddie's store, was in about 1946 or '47. Mr. Truman was in Kansas City and we were coming back from somewhere, I don't know where it was. It was the President's car and there were two or three other cars of reporters and a Secret Service car -- about six or eight cars -- and Truman said, "Go down such and such a street. I want to buy some shirts from Eddie Jacobson."

Well, we pulled up in front of the place and the traffic jammed and it caused a "riot," you know. We went into Eddie's store. There was a half a dozen customers in there and their eyes bugged out, and Eddie was very much embarrassed. Truman says, "Eddie, I want a half dozen white shirts so and so and so and so size," (I think it was 15/33 or something like that?. Well,

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right at that time, white shirts were hard to come by. I don't know why, but during the war and right after the war, you couldn't buy white shirts. Eddie didn't have Harry Truman's size. Well, then he was embarrassed and it came out -- of course, these reporters -- it came out in the papers that the President had stopped into the store of his old former partner trying to buy half a dozen shirts and he couldn't get them.

Within the next two weeks, Harry Truman received a hundred and fifty white shirts, size whatever-it-was, which unfortunately was not my size; but it was John Snyder's size, so he gave John a couple of dozen shirts and I didn't get any. The only thing of Truman's that I could talk him out of were hats and shoes. We had the same size hats and shoes. I've gotten away with half a dozen hats from him because he received a lot of hats while he was in the White House, too -- a hundred or more.

MORRISSEY: How about cigars?

VAUGHAN: Oh, yes, yes. Of course, a lot of people didn't know he didn't smoke and I suppose he received three hundred boxes of cigars during the years he was at the White House and I got two hundred and ninety of them.

[25]

I did his official smoking until John Steelman came along. Then he cut in on my racket, just a little bit.

MORRISSEY: Was Jake Vardaman a member of this group that used to...

VAUGHAN: I think about 1924 or '5 was the first summer that Jake Vardaman went to camp. He was a captain in the field artillery also and he went along for a number of years to camp. Then he got to be a major, as I recall. When we were preparing -- we did a lot of preparation during '39 and '40 for the war that we were reasonably sure we were going to get in, for some unaccountable reason, Jake transferred over to Naval Intelligence. I never did know why. He got a commission as a lieutenant commander in Naval Intelligence, so we lost track of him from then on, I mean so far as summer camps were concerned.

MORRISSEY: You were living in Wisconsin when Mr. Truman first ran for the Senate?

VAUGHAN: I was in Wisconsin in '34 when he ran for the Senate.

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MORRISSEY: Did you try to help him?

VAUGHAN: Oh, yes, I corresponded with a lot of my friends in Missouri and I went to camp that summer even down from Wisconsin. We did a lot of politicking the two weeks we were at camp. Yes, I wrote a lot of my friends back in Missouri.

MORRISSEY: Did you make any effort to raise funds for his campaign?

VAUGHAN: Not up there, no. Not at that time.

MORRISSEY: Do you recall meeting Mr. Truman during his first term as senator?

VAUGHAN: Oh, yes, sure, I met him a number of times. Then, of course, he used to come to camp as a senator, too. I'd see him a couple of times every year, at least. I think I was living up in Wisconsin the year that we went to Fort Ripley -- maybe not. I forget which particular year that was. That was probably about '35. I was back in St. Louis by that time, I believe.

MORRISSEY: You don't have any specific recollections of any of Mr. Truman's functions as a senator, let's say

[27]

legislation being passed in Washington?

VAUGHAN: You mean in his first term?

MORRISSEY: Yes, his first term.

VAUGHAN: No, I would correspond with him somewhat, but I don't recall. His principal activity during his first term was in the Interstate Commerce Committee of the Senate. When he joined the Interstate Commerce Committee as a freshman senator, Burton K. Wheeler was chairman and the Senate appointed a sub-committee of the Interstate Commerce Committee to write the Railroad Reorganization Act, and Mr. Truman was made chairman of this sub-committee. He really worked hard at it. I think Burton Wheeler appointed him because he knew he'd work hard, and Burt Wheeler had enough seniority that he'd just as soon let the junior senators do the work which is characteristic.

MORRISSEY: Mr. Truman was quite proud of his experience with railroad legislation?

VAUGHAN: Oh yes, I really think that he was. Probably, at the end of his first term, I don't know that there was

[28]

anybody in the government that had a more thorough knowledge of railroad legislation and things affecting the railroads. But that's one characteristic of Harry Truman, that when he goes into something, he studies it terrifically hard. That's why I think the Truman Committee was a success, because Truman worked at it almost every waking moment.

MORRISSEY: Did Mr. Truman ever mention anything to you about an appointment to the ICC?

VAUGHAN: No, I don't recall that. I know he was very much interested in it because as chairman of this sub-committee, he had a lot of work that the ICC, as well as the railroad brotherhoods and various management. While he didn't make any concessions to them, I think he made some very firm friends among the railroad union heads. I believe there was a man, Whitney -- wasn't there a man by the name of Whitney?

MORRISSEY: Yes.

VAUGHAN: He was head of locomotive engineers, was he not? Then there was another one that was a very good -- quite a friend of Mr. Truman's in later years. They all had

[29]

their difficulties. Like with John L. Lewis. Mr. Truman and John L. had numerous arguments when Lewis would appear as a witness before the Truman Committee, but in later years, they got to be very close friends and I think they hold each other in very, very :high regard now. Every time I see Mr. Lewis, he's always asking about Mr. Truman, how he's getting along and everything.

MORRISSEY: You say you've met Tom Pendergast?

VAUGHAN: No, I never met him. I've seen him -- I saw him in Kansas City on a number of occasions, but I never had occasion to meet him. But, of course, I still know his nephew and correspond with him and exchange Christmas cards. I see him sometimes when I'm in Kansas City. Jim is out of politics now, but he's practicing law in Kansas City.

MORRISSEY: By 1940, you were living back in Missouri and you worked for Mr. Truman's re-election?

VAUGHAN: Oh, yes.

MORRISSEY: In what capacity?

VAUGHAN: Well, Mr. Truman, during his first term in the

[30]

Senate, did a lot of favors for a lot of people, perfectly legitimately so, but you would expect that these people, when it came time for Truman to run for re-election, would remember that he had done them a lot of favors, but memories are awfully short. Like Alben Barkley's statement that "You ain't done nothin' for me lately." So there were a lot of people, bank presidents, for example, or men high in financial circles, who could have been chairman of Truman's finance committee easily and could have raised considerable money for him. They were sold on the idea that Mr. Truman didn't have a chance, just like the smart money people seemed to think nationally in '48 -- this was the same way in '40. So I can think back now of at least four or five people that he requested.

MORRISSEY: Do you remember any specific names?

VAUGHAN: Well, I wouldn't like to -- no sense in mentioning that because they're all prominent in Missouri and it might embarrass them to bring it up. But they all had, what they seemed to think, were excellent alibis for not being connected, but I don't think there was any

[31]

alibi at all except they didn't think Mr. Truman could make it. And finally, by a method of elimination, everybody was eliminated but me, and that's one way to get a job, you know, if everybody else is eliminated but you. You're a natural cinch for it. He asked me if I would serve as chairman of this finance committee, and I said I'd be glad to. "My bank balance is about $3.25. I don't know."

He said, "Well, it's all right. People like you."

A lot of people didn't know me at all. You've got to be in a position to get money out of people, you've got to have it yourself -- that's been my experience, by and large. If you're a person of means, other people of means have obligations towards you and you can...But anyway, we put on a Woolworth campaign like nobody's business and the total amount of money that Mr. Truman had for his campaign, was $16,000 and $3,000 of that he borrowed on his life insurance. There were two people that gave Mr. Truman contributions -- one man gave him a thousand dollars and that was the only large contribution. Everything else was twenties and fifties, and we raised some money by appealing to people to send in a dollar to help him pay his bills. We got about $200

[32]

that way and spent the $200 to buy stamps and send out several thousand requests and we got about $800 right at the end of the campaign -- or really after the primary was over -- we got about $800 through the mail that helped us pay our bills. We had all the funds audited by a CPA and filed, and I think that was the all-time low for a senatorial campaign. I don't imagine that there's ever been one less. The man that was running against him, spent $100,000.

MORRISSEY: Which man?

VAUGHAN: Stark.

MORRISSEY: Did you have anybody to help you as -- you were what -- finance chairman?

VAUGHAN: I was finance chairman.

MORRISSEY: Did you have an assistant finance chairman?

VAUGHAN: No, I don't remember. There was about a half dozen names on the letter head that were on the finance committee, but I don't remember who they were. They were window dressing, I think.

MORRISSEY: Did many contributions come in after Mr. Truman

[33]

had won the primary?

VAUGHAN: Yes, I'd say about eight or nine hundred dollars after the primary which was very fortunate because we had some unpaid obligations.

MORRISSEY: There's a story that at a meeting in St. Louis in 1940, several of Mr. Truman's friends tried to persuade him not to run.

VAUGHAN: Oh, yes. I was present. That was the meeting where he asked so-and-so if he wouldn't serve -- a banker friend of his, and he said, "No," he couldn't do it because and, and so and so...He asked another, a lawyer friend, "No," he couldn't do it because he was doing this. He asked about a half a dozen people. The meeting that I think you referred to was in the Statler Hotel in St. Louis in Senator Truman's suite and there were eight or ten people present. All of them were supposedly good friends of the senator. Many of them owed him considerable in the way of favors and things he'd done for them. He asked at least five if they wouldn't head up a committee for his renomination campaign, and they all had excellent excuses which appeared excellent

[34]

to them, but they didn't seem to be very justifiable to me. After all of them had excused themselves -- declined and most of them had left, why, there was nobody left to do it but me and he asked me if I'd do it. I said, "Of course, I'll do it, but you certainly could find somebody that would be of more financial authority than I, because I don't have any weight...." You have to have something on some of these people to get them to contribute. They contribute to something that you want in hopes that when they're around collecting funds for something they can put the bite on you. That's been my experience. And I didn't have that kind of a lever on any of these people. But it was certainly a Woolworth campaign and I suppose, the cheapest senatorial campaign that was ever put on in the United States, I feel sure. It was audited by a CPA -- turned in, so I happen to know that everything was entirely legal.

MORRISSEY: What were these charges of a slush fund in the 1940 campaign, General?

VAUGHAN: Well, that was about five days before the primary election, Governor Stark made a statement over the air

[35]

which was picked up by the Post-Dispatch, that Truman's campaign was being financed by a slush fund furnished by Tom Pendergast. Well, we didn't have enough funds to go on the air to refute it, in fact, we didn't have any funds, period. There was about $200 that we could use for postage, so we sent out -- we had plenty of stationery -- so we mimeographed an appeal, a denial of this and said, "If you're interested in helping Mr. Truman, send in a dollar." We sent out about -- well, $200 worth of postage. I think in those days you could send -- if you didn't seal them -- I think you could send them for a cent and a half. Well, anyway, we sent that out on Friday, I think, and there was a Saturday afternoon delivery and one Monday morning. We got about five or six hundred dollars and we bought postage with that and sent out several thousand more, all over the state. The first ones we sent out to St. Louis and St. Louis County. We sent them all over the state with the same appeal, asking them to send in a dollar and I think finally we got about $1200 that helped to wind up our campaign expenses.

MORRISSEY: How did you counter these charges of a slush fund?

[36]

VAUGHAN: Well, we denied that there was any such thing and at that time, Tom Pendergast was under indictment and I'm not sure but what he was in jail at that time. I don't remember exactly when he went to jail, he did at one time I know, and was released from jail because of his delicate health. We pointed out that Tom Pendergast didn't have enough money to take care of himself much less furnish any slush fund for any political activities. Tom was in quite financial straits at that particular moment. The principal argument that -- I think the thing that convinced people that there wasn't any such thing as a slush fund -- was the fact that we were asking for a dollar and anybody with ample campaign funds doesn't send out an appeal for a dollar.

MORRISSEY: Were these appeals sent out on the very eve of election day or were they sent out well ahead of time?

VAUGHAN: The election was on Tuesday and I think the first was sent out on Friday right there in St. Louis and St. Louis County so they would be delivered that afternoon. We got a few answers back on Saturday and quite a few more, a couple of hundred more, on Monday. Then on Monday afternoon, we sent out larger appeals which would

[37]

be delivered by Tuesday morning hoping that would affect some of the votes, and asking for the dollar. Then the last group of dollar contributions didn't come in until after the primary was over, but they could be used to defray expenses. Not only did we bring in the dollar, but people reading that were convinced that this was -- that the slush fund claim was entirely erroneous.

MORRISSEY: Did you drive Mr. Truman around the state?

VAUGHAN: No, I never did drive him at all. When the campaign was going on and when he was speaking close to St. Louis, on several occasions I went out to -- in fact, I was out in Sedalia; I think the kick-off of the campaign was in Sedalia. It was a great big Democratic rally. Then I went to several in St. Louis County and St. Louis, but I never did drive him. I think Fred Canfil did most of the driving. I think Fred had been an employee at the Jackson County courthouse when Mr. Truman was County Commissioner. That's where Truman got to know him.

MORRISSEY: Did Fred Canfil play any other part in this campaign or was he mostly just a chauffeur?

[38]

VAUGHAN: That's all that I knew of. Of course, Fred was a very articulate individual. I don't think he missed a chance to do a lot of talking when the occasion presented itself.

MORRISSEY: What function did Roger Sermon play in this campaign?

VAUGHAN: Well, Roger was the mayor of Independence at that time, I think. I think he did some campaigning up around the western part of the state. I'm sure he was a very enthusiastic supporter; he always had been.

MORRISSEY: How about Vic Messall?

VAUGHAN: Well, Vic, you see, was Mr. Truman's secretary during his first term. Vic had been secretary to a Missouri congressman by the name of Lee, who had run at large in 1938. Then when they redistricted the state before the 1940 election, Lee was redistricted out so he didn't run for re-election. When Mr. Truman came to Washington in 1940, he was a senator without a staff and here was Lee's staff without a principal. So Truman just inherited this staff. I'm in error as to the year. Lee was elected in '32, and then he was redistricted

[39]

out in '34 and so when Truman came into Washington in January, 1935, he inherited -- he just took over Lee's staff, Vic Messall and two stenographers that the congressman had had.

MORRISSEY: Do you remember much about Tom Evans in the 1940 campaign?

VAUGHAN: No, I don't know much about Tom Evans and the 1940 campaign. Tom Evans was active probably in Kansas City. I never got to know Tom Evans very well until Mr. Truman became President and I would go back to Kansas City with the President and Tom Evans was very active, very much in evidence around Kansas City at that time.

MORRISSEY: There's another Evans too not to be confused with Tom.

VAUGHAN: That's Bob Evans who is the president of a bank in Louisville and he was the guidon in Mr. Truman's battery. The guidon is the boy who carries the red swallow tail pennant for mounted drill. His duties are carrying the flag in the drill and he acts as the captain's orderly, takes care of the captain's horse. We see Bob Evans frequently. He's still in close touch

[40]

with Mr. Truman, He comes to Kansas City frequently,

MORRISSEY: John Snyder, I imagine, was active in the '40 campaign.

VAUGHAN: Well, John Snyder was not very active for the simple reason that he was the St. Louis manager of the RFC office in St. Louis, which handicapped his political activities considerably. In fact, John was one of those that Mr. Truman asked if he couldn't run his campaign and John, I think, was the only one of the group that refused to do it who had a perfectly legitimate reason, because as manager of the St. Louis RFC office, he just could not connect himself with a primary campaign.

MORRISSEY: Who was Reathel Odum?

VAUGHAN: Reathel Odum was a secretary -- one of John Snyder's secretaries when he was bank examiner there in St. Louis. When Mr. Truman went to Washington in 1934, he wanted a third stenographer. He'd gotten Vic Messall and two stenographers from Mr. Lee and he wanted a third stenographer, so John Snyder suggested that he take Reathel Odum and she went up there in January of

[41]

'35, and she served with the President, and then she was Mrs. Truman's secretary at the White House.

MORRISSEY: Was Jake Vardaman active in this campaign?

VAUGHAN: No, he was not because Jake Vardaman had resigned from the job of RFC. John Snyder had succeeded him in the RFC job and Jake Vardaman was vice president, at that time, of the First National Bank in St. Louis; he was later president of the Tower Grove Bank, but at that time he was vice president of the First National. The powers that be in the First National Bank, many of them Republicans, and the rest of them didn't think Harry Truman had a chance, so I don't think that they would have looked with much favor on Jake Vardaman being very active in the campaign.

MORRISSEY: Did you think from the outset of this campaign that Mr. Truman did have a good chance of winning?

VAUGHAN: Oh, I thought so, but I was perfectly willing to work at it whether he was going to win or not. If he was only going to get his own vote and mine, why that was all right with me.

MORRISSEY: I have some names here and I don't know whether

[42]

they'll spark any response from you, but can I throw them out and see if possible if they had any function in the '40 campaign, any contributions to make to Mr. Truman's re-election?

I have J. V. Conran.

VAUGHAN: Well, Conran was an active politician in the state, down in the southern part of the state as I remember. I'm not sure. I didn't know him very well; I just knew the name in state politics. Now whether he was an active campaigner in the '40 campaign, I'm not sure.

MORRISSEY: How about Richard Nacy?

VAUGHAN: Oh, yes, Dick Nacy was the vice president of the leading bank in Jefferson City and a very important cog in the Democratic organization. In fact later I think he was a national committeeman of Missouri and he has always been a very ardent supporter of Harry Truman. Dick died a couple of years ago, however.

MORRISSEY: How about Sam Wear?

VAUGHAN: Well, Sam Wear was too. They were active out in the state in certain localities. I didn't know much

[43]

about what they accomplished, but they were names and I knew them. I knew they were active in the party.

MORRISSEY: In St. Louis were you active with Sid Salomon or Ray Tucker?

VAUGHAN: Well, I knew them both, yes. They were active city politicians as was Bob Hannegan. There was a chap with an Italian name who was the leader of one ward, I forget...

MORRISSEY: Gualdoni?

VAUGHAN: Gene Gualdoni, yes. Gene was the typical ward boss and he carried Harry Truman's ward, I mean, he carried his ward for Harry Truman. I'm not sure, but there were probably more votes than there were people in the ward, I wouldn't swear to that, but Gene got full mileage out of his job.

MORRISSEY: Do you remember anything specific about Bob Hannegan in this campaign?

VAUGHAN: In the '40 campaign?

MORRISSEY: Yes.

[44]

VAUGHAN: Bob was supporting Truman, all right, but Bob was devoting most of his energy to trying to elect a St. Louis friend of his as governor.

MORRISSEY: Was that McDaniel?

VAUGHAN: Yes, Larry McDaniel -- I think it was Larry McDaniel. Was Larry the right name, let's see...

MORRISSEY: I don't know whether it's McDaniel or McDaniels with an "s." I'll have to check.

VAUGHAN: Yes, Larry McDaniels, that's right. They were trying to elect Larry governor and with all due respect to my good Irish friend, Bob Hannegan, he was more interested in electing Larry McDaniels than he was electing Harry Truman. He didn't do anything to hurt Harry Truman's campaign, but most of his energy went in for Larry McDaniels.

MORRISSEY: Was the Truman campaign coordinated with the McDaniel campaign? Was there any deliberate effort to…?

VAUGHAN: Not in St. Louis it wasn't, because, as I say, Truman was from Kansas City and they thought, the

[45]

politicians of St. Louis thought, that it would be more to their advantage to elect their boy governor than it would be to elect somebody senator, and so while I don't think they were out for Stark who wasn't too popular with them -- still the main effort was Larry. Now southeast Missouri, they were out for Truman one hundred and one percent.

MORRISSEY: Why?

VAUGHAN: We had some very good friends down around Cape Girardeau and down in that part of the country. Roy Harper was one of the principals. He's now a Federal judge. Roy Harper and Neal Helm.

MORRISSEY: Neal Helm -- is there a Bill Helm?

VAUGHAN: There's a Bill Helm. Bill Helm was a newspaper man in Kansas City with the old Kansas City Journal, as I remember. That's Bill Helm. He used to write a lot of articles about Mr. Truman. Neal Helm was a cotton broker down in southeast Missouri, he and Roy Harper.

MORRISSEY: And he helped Mr. Truman a lot?

[46]

VAUGHAN: Oh, southeast Missouri was very solid for us. In fact, the boys from southeast Missouri came up to St. Louis and they were a little bit provoked at the lukewarm attitude of some of the St. Louis ward heelers. They came up and said, "If you don't put in a little more effort for Harry Truman up here, we're going to scratch your boy Larry McDaniels down in southeast Missouri."

Well, that is a language that politicians understand perfectly. In fact, I'm sure that Roy Harper and Neal Helm did Truman a lot of good in St. Louis by virtue of being able to put on the pressure.

MORRISSEY: Was there an effort you know about in St. Louis to get newspaper support, let's say from the Post-Dispatch?

VAUGHAN: Oh, yes, there was plenty of effort, but the Post-Dispatch and the Globe Democrat both invented new terms to abuse Truman. They were one thousand percent anti-Truman and the Star was too, although not quite as bad as the other two. The Star was later taken over by the Post-Dispatch, I believe? The Star was an evening paper and it was taken over by the Post-Dispatch. The St.

[47]

Louis papers were very much in favor of Lloyd Stark.

MORRISSEY: Does the name David Berenstein mean anything to you?

VAUGHAN: Dave Berenstein, yes. Dave Berenstein acted as campaign manager for Mr. Truman's campaign there in St. Louis. Dave was a lawyer and a very, very good speaker and a very active, energetic sort of a fellow. He went around and organized all the Truman for Senator Clubs in the various wards and he did some great work.

MORRISSEY: Was there anyone who might be called a speech adviser to Mr. Truman during his campaign? Anyone who would write his speeches or help him?

VAUGHAN: No., he wrote all of his speeches; I'm sure of that because I've been with him when he was working on some of them. Mr. Truman speaks better when it's off the cuff, but when you're quoting facts and figures, why, you can't always speak off the cuff.

MORRISSEY: Does the name John Farrington mean anything to you?

VAUGHAN: Well, I can recall the name, but I really can't –

[48]

it doesn't ring any bell with me. I don't have any recollection of it.

MORRISSEY: How about Dr. Thomas Brady or Dr. William Bradshaw?

VAUGHAN: Well, there again, they're names that I can recall having heard, but I don't...

MORRISSEY: How about T. H. Van Sant?

VAUGHAN: Oh, Tom Van Sant. He was a banker from Fulton, Missouri. He was in college with me and a life-long friend of mine. Tom Van Sant was a very enthusiastic Truman Democrat and he used to come to see Mr. Truman in the White House. He always referred to himself as "Mr. Average Voter." He'd come in and tell the President, "Now, I think you ought to know what the average voter is thinking."

The President always referred to Tom as "Mr. Average Voter." Tom was a very down-to-earth, astute politician. I don't know whether he'd know all the ramifications of big city politics, but he knew how it was operated in a rural community like Fulton, Missouri. His advice was excellent and Truman wanted him to accept

[49]

the position of Under Secretary of Agriculture under Clint Anderson, but his business difficulties there -- he had business connections there in Fulton -- that prevented him from doing it. He would have been Secretary of Agriculture -- would have succeeded to the job when Anderson resigned to run for the Senate.

MORRISSEY: Was there much of an effort to get the votes of the railroad unions?

VAUGHAN: Oh yes, I'm sure there was and Mr. Truman, even at that time, he was pretty solid with labor. I had nothing to do with it because I had no connection and didn't have any acquaintances in the thing at all.

MORRISSEY: Was there any effort to cultivate the Negro vote?

VAUGHAN: Well, I don't know of any particular concerted effort that I knew of. We had one awfully good friend, a Dr. Tompkins.

MORRISSEY: William J. Tompkins?

VAUGHAN: Yes, he was a very enthusiastic Truman supporter and he was later Recorder of Deeds here in Washington.

[50]

Mr. Truman appointed him Recorder of Deeds and he did an excellent job, too. He was Mr. Truman's particular connection -- liaison with the Negro population.

MORRISSEY: Did you have any dealings with William Hirth of the Missouri Farmers Association?

VAUGHAN: Yes, he was a friend of Truman's. I remember on several occasions he and Senator Truman spoke on the same platform at some of the Democratic rallies during the '40 campaign.

MORRISSEY: How about James Aylward? Does that ring a bell?

VAUGHAN: Yes, Jim Aylward was usually in our corner, but not always. You couldn't count on Jim one hundred percent. Jim had been national committeeman. I believe he was at that time. I'm not sure. But if things were going good, why, you could count on Jim, but you couldn't always, I don't think. That's my recollection; I may be doing him an injustice, but as I recall...

MORRISSEY: How did Mayor Dickmann of St. Louis figure into this campaign?

VAUGHAN: Well, of course, Barney was interested principally,

[51]

along with Bob Hannegan, in electing Larry McDaniels and while Barney was a good friend of the President's to all intents and purposes...

MORRISSEY: Let me throw two more names out General, Charles M. Howell and Roy McKittrick? Do they mean anything in the context of the 1940 campaign?

VAUGHAN: They were there and just exactly what they did I wouldn't be in a position to say.

MORRISSEY: Did the Battery "D" boys help Mr. Truman out in this campaign?

VAUGHAN: Well, I don't know how much political savvy those characters had, but I'm sure they were there and doing a lot of talking and I know they all voted for him.

MORRISSEY: Do you think Mr. Truman's Masonic connections in Missouri helped him? As I remember, he was Grand Master?

VAUGHAN: Yes, he was Grand Master in '40-'41. He was Grand Master after the election. Yes, I kind of imagine it was helpful.

MORRISSEY: Was there any effort, to your knowledge, to

[52]

dissuade FDR from endorsing Lloyd Stark in that campaign?

VAUGHAN: I don't know whether there was any effort at all. Champ Clark -- Bennett Clark -- could have, but I don't think Bennett Clark was...Bennett Clark never did favors for Harry Truman and Harry Truman in return never did for Bennett Clark.

MORRISSEY: Was Milligan, to your knowledge, maneuvered into the primary to take votes away from Stark, or did he decide to run on his own?

VAUGHAN: Oh, no, I think Milligan's candidacy was perfectly legitimate; he wanted to be nominated for the Senate. It just happened that there were three candidates. I don't think that there were any particular ulterior motives, except that they were all trying to get nominated.

MORRISSEY: Mr. Truman later appointed Milligan to a Federal job, I think, in Kansas City.

VAUGHAN: Yes, I can't recall what it was, but I remember...

MORRISSEY: Was it the District Attorneyship? I'm not sure

[53]

myself. I'm guessing.

VAUGHAN: U. S. Attorney, I believe,

MORRISSEY: I think that's right.

VAUGHAN: Yes, I believe so, in the Western District of Missouri. That's about the same time that Fred Canfil was made marshal of the Western District.

MORRISSEY: Why do you think Stark lost? Most people thought he was going to win.

VAUGHAN: Well, I think it was Truman's energetic and forthright campaign.

MORRISSEY: Was there ever any doubt that Mr. Truman might lose to Manvel Davis who was his Republican opponent?

VAUGHAN: Oh, no, no, I don't think so. In fact, I would say ninety-eight percent of the people in Missouri can't ever remember that Mr. Davis was ever -- who Mr. Davis is and after Truman got the nomination, why, he had it made.

MORRISSEY: When did you become secretary to Mr. Truman?

VAUGHAN: The second day of January, 1941.

[54]

MORRISSEY: Why was the Truman Committee established?

VAUGHAN: In about February of '41, we began to get a lot of letters from people complaining about the great waste of manpower and materiel in the construction of Fort Leonard Wood and Camp Crowder, and it was our system to -- when I got a lot of correspondence about any one subject, I would save them all until I got a hundred or two, and I would write a letter that would answer all of them, and take it in and get Mr. Truman's approval of it, and then I'd answer all of the letters on that subject. Well, I took it in to Mr. Truman and he said, "Don't answer that until next week. The Senate is going to be in recess for two or three days next week and I'll -- if this is happening in Missouri, it's happening out here too, so I'm going to take my car and drive around."

So he did and drove down to Camp Lee and Camp Pickett and Fort Eustis and over here at Meade and when he came back he said, "Boy, they are really wasting manpower and materiel and everything else. I think something ought to be done about that but first I'm going to talk to Bob Reynolds about it."

Well, Bob Reynolds was chairman of the Military

[55]

Affairs Committee and Mr. Truman was a member of the Military Affairs Committee. So, he went to Bob Reynolds and tried to persuade Bob Reynolds to appoint a subcommittee to investigate the war effort and Bob Reynolds didn't go for it. He said he had no time for that. So Truman went on the floor of the Senate and stated the situation, and asked for a special committee to investigate it. He sold the Senate on the idea and they voted to have a special committee and they made him chairman. They voted the magnificent sum of $15,000 for committee expenses. Well, as soon as they started they got another appropriation and another and altogether, in the about five or six years that Mr. Truman was chairman, they probably spent a half-million dollars. But I'm sure the Truman Committee activities, and the very existence of it, saved the American tax payers eight or ten billion dollars.

MORRISSEY: Did Mr. Truman make this tour to these army ports completely unannounced? Did he just drive in?

VAUGHAN: Oh, yes, completely unannounced. He'd just drive in and look around. Nobody knew he was senator or who he was. He just went around and they thought maybe he

[56]

was a sub-contractor or something.

MORRISSEY: Were many of his Missouri constituents interested in defense contracts at the outset of World War II and possibly upset by this?

VAUGHAN: I don't recall. There were undoubtedly a fair share of them, I have no doubt. I don't recall any particular ones.

MORRISSEY: How did Mr. Truman go about hiring himself a staff for this committee?

VAUGHAN: Well, of course, it came out in the papers that the committee had been authorized and there were plenty of applications. There were several people, I can't recall now exactly who it was that recommended Mr. Hugh Fulton as the chief counsel.

MORRISSEY: I've heard that it was Robert Jackson.

VAUGHAN: Justice Jackson -- well, that could be. Jackson was in the Department of Justice then; I don't think he was on the Supreme Court. That probably was true, but Mr. Fulton's commitments in New York made it impossible for him to report for about six or eight weeks,

[57]

and so the first two people that applied for jobs on the staff were Charles Patrick Clark, who Mr. Truman hired as associate counsel and Matt Connelly, whom he hired as investigator. Then the staff was built up from there. It never was a terrifically large staff like a lot of committees have. Both Connelly and Clark had had committee experience and investigating experience before.

MORRISSEY: Was Bill Boyle from Kansas City a member of that staff?

VAUGHAN: Yes, Bill Boyle had just lost his job out in Kansas City as police commissioner. I think there was a change of administration and he was out as police commissioner -- so Mr. Truman had me wire Bill and said that there was a job for him on this committee as an investigator if he wanted to come. Bill, of course, said he wanted to come and he started right out immediately with his family -- his wife and two daughters, and he got in all kinds of weather. He was snowed in, in West Virginia and it took him about a week to get here, but he finally made it.

MORRISSEY: What was known as "Harry's Doghouse?"

[58]

VAUGHAN: Well, there were three-room and four-room suites in the old Senate office building and Truman had a four-room suite -- 240. You went into the center, into one room where the receptionist was and the stenographers sat and to the right was my office, to the left was Mr. Truman's office and beyond Mr. Truman's officer there was another room, a little smaller room, where we had two or three leather couches, big leather chairs and an ice box and a supply of refreshments. It was used for conferences, and Mr. Truman would sneak in and take a nap on one of the couches occasionally. There was a desk in there where you could go if you wanted to do some work -- do some dictating and not be interrupted. I don't know where it got the term, "The Doghouse."

MORRISSEY: How did Mr. Truman administer his staff for this committee? How did he divide up assignments and that sort of thing?

VAUGHAN: Well, the counsel assigned the various people. They would sometimes have two or three investigations going at the same time. While they were having hearings on one matter, they would be laying the groundwork for other investigations. For example, the hearing on –

[59]

I think, the first hearing was on the construction of camps which was the thing that really started the committee. Then they had a hearing on synthetic rubber plants; and a hearing on aluminum. There was a lot of controversy over the oil industry and its application to the national defense. So, various men were assigned to make an investigation along a certain line and they were working on several, as I say, at the same time.

MORRISSEY: Actually, you were in the Senator's office as a member of his Senate staff?

VAUGHAN: Yes. I helped in the hiring of some of the first people and in the formation of the committee. When Mr. Truman had gotten his authority from the Senate, then he went on the air at one of the radio stations here explaining what the committee was going to do, a thirty minute program. I remember going up with him on that particular occasion when he made his broadcast. But I was in the Senator's office and so after the committee got going I had very little to do with it. Of course I knew all of them and would see them and he'd give me instructions to tell them something sometimes. But

[60]

ordinarily I was running his office -- his senatorial office was separate from the committee.

MORRISSEY: Then a year or two later when you came back from Australia, didn't you serve as...

VAUGHAN: As liaison officer between the committee and the War Department. I was still on active duty and in uniform. I was in the hospital for the first few months after I got back. Then I went back on duty with the committee and not too long after that, Mr. Truman was nominated for Vice President and he withdrew. The day after he came back after the convention he resigned as chairman and Jim Mead of New York succeeded to the chairmanship. When I got out of the hospital, I had what they call "Limited Duty" for a number of months until 1944.

MORRISSEY: Do you remember anything specific about your duties as liaison officer between the War Department and the Truman Committee? What did this involve?

VAUGHAN: Well, I made some inspections for them and went around the country to various places. Then we took a trip, especially after the European war was over (the

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Pacific war was still going on). Our army had moved away from North Africa and had left billions of dollars worth of equipment in North Africa, all conceivable materiel of war. So I took a trip to North Africa with two members of the committee, Senator Burton of Michigan and Senator Tunnell of Delaware. We went across to Algiers and across North Africa to Cairo and into Palestine -- to Italy and then across to Jerusalem -- Damascus and Jerusalem and down through Karachi, India, looking at all the stuff that we had there, trying to find out whether it was worth bringing home or not, or whether we could sell it. Probably we gave most of it away to the various countries in which it was located. That happened from the day after Christmas to the day before Mr. Truman was inaugurated Vice President, January 20 of 1945.

MORRISSEY: I've read somewhere that the Truman Committee was very effective in lessening military secrecy.

VAUGHAN: Yes, I think they probably were because they had carried this restricted information thing to a ridiculous extreme and when we put it to the test, why, they didn't have a leg to stand on when they refused

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to permit the Senate to have certain matters. And so, being as we busted it open, then a lot of Congressional committees busted it open. I remember Mr. Truman used to refuse to accept fees for any writing or speeches, or anything, and he wrote an article that appeared in some magazine and they sent him a fee. He didn't want it and they insisted they couldn't take it back. It was a fee for several hundred dollars -- something like that. So, he gave a dinner for the staff, all the staff and everybody that was connected with the committee. He gave this dinner up at the Statler Hotel and the speaker at the dinner was Dr. Freeman of Richmond, the great authority on the Civil War. Freeman's remarks were very enlightening. He compared the Truman Committee with the very famous Committee on the Conduct of the War in the time of the Civil War.